Jean Chrétien @ Gomery Commission/ CPAC (Channel 68)

[hjwolf69]

missed it this morning, but it's being rebroadcast right now, and will be rebroadcast again at 2am EST

Jean Chrétien gives a very good opening statement and handles questions very well ... very Prime Ministerial :)

http://www.gomery.ca/en/index.asp
http://www.cpac.ca/forms/index.asp?dsp=template&act=view3&template_id=46&lang=e
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/chretien/

[Peeping Tom]

I watched it twice and it was great - the scoundrel's visage of pure contempt, completely unable to comprehend that he is actually there in the docks, reading his lines like a child. It really reminded me of Ceaucescu's contemptuous, princely arrogance while he was up against the wall, for which he got a .32 hardball in the gut. May God bless the State with a lengthly prison term for this asshole :cool:

[blitz]

Yep. Another valuable view from Peeping.

Idiot.

The proceedings are facinating. I'll await judgement.

[yychobbyist]

I loved when he pulled out the golf balls. Especially the ball from the law firm where Mrs Gomery practices and he said something to the effect that small town Westmount was an oxymoron. Classic fighting Jean.

[hooktonsc]

wow...something complimentary about Chretien from a Calgarian...

[yychobbyist]

Yeah, strange hunh? I actually really admire the guy - he always made me laugh.

[The Truman Show]

Yeah, he's a real joke ...

[WoodPeckr]

Think of it as comic relief, you have Chrétien, we have the Shrub. Both very entertainingly funny in their own special ways.
Remember Chrétien even stuck up for Dubya awhile back and considers Dubya a friend.... :D

Besides you have to cut Jean some slack, afterall this is Fat Tuesday!

[sizematters]

Yeah, he's a real joke ...

Chretien...smart like fox...
a nice long prison term might knock some of the arrogance out of him.

[blitz]

that's likely to happen :rolleyes:

[zydeco]

I'm not sure if you guys are serious about a prison term for the ex-PM. If you are - I hate to be the one to wake you up - but you are dreaming.

[langeweile]

There is no way this moron is going to prison.
His arrogant behaviour in front of the judge makes me believe that he knows he is safe.
In any case it was astonishing to hear how lightly he brushed over the fact, that millions of tax dollars got pissed away. "Yeah what is a few million?' If we need more, we just raise taxes????No problem.
That on the heels of another 4% property tax hike in Ottawa. Things that make me go HHHMMMM...90% of all politicians are crooks. They give a rats ass about your money.

[onthebottom]

Can anyone point an ugly American to a synopsis of the sponsorship scandal?

OTB

[langeweile]

Can anyone point an ugly American to a synopsis of the sponsorship scandal?

OTB

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/

The quick(and mean) one:
The goverment of Canada has created a "slush fund" to promote Canada in Quebec.
A large part of the money is unacounted for and dissapeared in dubious marketing firms, mostly run by buddies of Chretien.
A lot of money spend for little services rendered.

[onthebottom]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/

The quick(and mean) one:
The goverment of Canada has created a "slush fund" to promote Canada in Quebec.
A large part of the money is unacounted for and dissapeared in dubious marketing firms, mostly run by buddies of Chretien.
A lot of money spend for little services rendered.

Thanks,

Has anyone been charged with a crime or is this just a political hunt?

OTB

[hjwolf69]

... Classic fighting Jean.remember this?:
http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2003/11/12/255669-cp.html
:)

[langeweile]

Thanks,

Has anyone been charged with a crime or is this just a political hunt?

OTB

Right now it is an investigation. Similar to a "Grand Jury" investigation, with a judge leading the investigation.
If i remember some guys have stepped down from their positions, but no charges have been filed yet.

[langeweile]

remember this?:
http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2003/11/12/255669-cp.html
:)
Imagine GWB doing this??We would have the world court convene.

[hooktonsc]

Imagine GWB doing this??We would have the world court convene.

I can't say I'm familiar with all the facts, perhaps someone else is and can expand - but what about GWB's connections to the Bin Laden family, Kenneth Lay (Enron chief, huge contributor to Bush campaign) and Cheney's connections (former CEO) with Haliburton (biggest beneficiary of war in Iraq). Makes corruption in the Chretien government truly look 'small town cheap'. And no, I don't see anyone questioning it, not the world court, no investigation, nothing.

[hjwolf69]

...I don't see anyone questioning it, not the world court, no investigation, nothing.a movie was made for the whole World to see:
http://www.terb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=75639&highlight=farenheit


... Has anyone been charged with a crime or is this just a political hunt?here are a couple links:
http://www.globalethics.org/newsline/members/issue.tmpl?articleid=05170419075397
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1084204352744_45/?hub=Canada


Imagine GWB doing this??We would have the world court convene.just desserts?:
http://www.angelfire.com/journal/rantoverlord/rant13.html
:)

[Peeping Tom]

Its not a political game, those in opposition are just as dirty, just that they didn't get caught last time they had their turn. Rather surprisingly for our immature system, it is the system itself that is working. Cretin laughed off the Auditor General's inquiry about the missing billion for the gun registry, this time the sailing isn't so smooth and hopefully long prison terms will be the result.


Thanks,

Has anyone been charged with a crime or is this just a political hunt?

OTB

[onthebottom]

Its not a political game, those in opposition are just as dirty, just that they didn't get caught last time they had their turn. Rather surprisingly for our immature system, it is the system itself that is working. Cretin laughed off the Auditor General's inquiry about the missing billion for the gun registry, this time the sailing isn't so smooth and hopefully long prison terms will be the result.

Good point, even a near miss of doing time will change behavior of many pols. SOx has CXOs thinking twice about signing those financial statements LOL

OTB

[yychobbyist]

remember this?:
http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2003/11/12/255669-cp.html
:)

Of course I remember this. You know it was things like that and his appearances on 22 minutes that made him as popular with some folks as he was. yeah, he was arrogant, spinny, rude to Americans and condescending but he also had one hell of a grasp of what a lot of ordinary Canadians were about. Sure OTB or Langeweile (can't remember who but am wondering if they're the same person anyway) say "there'd be a world court investigation if GWB did this" but what they also don't understand is that there's no U.S. President that would even conceive of appearing on a t.v. show like 22 Minutes and also no way in hell that the POTUS would appear in the way that Chretien did.

[someone]

but what they also don't understand is that there's no U.S. President that would even conceive of appearing on a t.v. show like 22 Minutes and also no way in hell that the POTUS would appear in the way that Chretien did.

I could be wrong but didn't Clinton appear on Saturday Night Live.

[yychobbyist]

I could be wrong but didn't Clinton appear on Saturday Night Live.

I don't know but did he do it in the same way that JC was on 22 Minutes - mocking, self deprecating, honest?

[Why Not?]

Jean Chrétien gives a very good opening statement and handles questions very well ... very Prime Ministerial :)

Prime Ministerial!!! Are you kidding? He was arrogant, dismissive, evasive, obfuscating, contemptuous, lacked even a basic understanding that something was very wrong and was unapologetic.

Oh wait a minute. Yeah you are right. He was Prime Ministerial

[red]

I watched it twice and it was great - the scoundrel's visage of pure contempt, completely unable to comprehend that he is actually there in the docks, reading his lines like a child. It really reminded me of Ceaucescu's contemptuous, princely arrogance while he was up against the wall, for which he got a .32 hardball in the gut. May God bless the State with a lengthly prison term for this asshole :cool:

thank you Mr. Gomery

[red]

Its not a political game, those in opposition are just as dirty, just that they didn't get caught last time they had their turn. Rather surprisingly for our immature system, it is the system itself that is working. Cretin laughed off the Auditor General's inquiry about the missing billion for the gun registry, this time the sailing isn't so smooth and hopefully long prison terms will be the result.

a billion dollars was missing or were they overbudget? I had never heard that a billion was missing

[n_v]

If i remember some guys have stepped down from their positions, but no charges have been filed yet.
Incorrect. One or two have been arrested way back in May of last year.

[langeweile]

I don't know but did he do it in the same way that JC was on 22 Minutes - mocking, self deprecating, honest?

Yes to Clinton's credit..he did.So did Guilliani, Al Gore, Bob Dole and others..

Well YY the thing that makes OTB and me the same is our love for our country and our distaste for intrusive goverment.

[n_v]

Personally I thought his appearance was classic. He was great. even belittling the commison and commisonor. I love the golf ball prop. Way to go Jean.

Was the money mis-spent? I am sure it was. But whaa is more of a hose job for the tax-payer is this inquiry. So far $60 million + and counting. Add to the fact when the news came out Martin had to call an election and suffered the outcome of this mess with a minority government, what otherwise seemed like a sure majority. As a result we can expect to see an election in about a year as opposed to 3 or 4. Therefore, with all the yapping and cussing over this issue, the taxpayer has screwed himself over of $300 million + of their own money over a $100 million scandal Running elections costs money). Pat yourself on the back taxpayer for fucking yourself up the ass. lol

[someone]

Personally I thought his appearance was classic. He was great. even belittling the commison and commisonor. I love the golf ball prop. Way to go Jean.

Was the money mis-spent? I am sure it was. But whaa is more of a hose job for the tax-payer is this inquiry. So far $60 million + and counting. Add to the fact when the news came out Martin had to call an election and suffered the outcome of this mess with a minority government, what otherwise seemed like a sure majority. As a result we can expect to see an election in about a year as opposed to 3 or 4. Therefore, with all the yapping and cussing over this issue, the taxpayer has screwed himself over of $300 million + of their own money over a $100 million scandal Running elections costs money). Pat yourself on the back taxpayer for fucking yourself up the ass. lol

Using your logic, stores should never prosecute shoplifters. Doing so is often more costly than what was stolen and getting someone convicted does not necessarily mean any money in their pockets. Nonetheless, they do prosecute shoplifters as they know there is a deterrence effect in doing so. The principal is the same here. No enquiry would simply encourage more of the same behavior.

[langeweile]

Personally I thought his appearance was classic. He was great. even belittling the commison and commisonor. I love the golf ball prop. Way to go Jean.

Was the money mis-spent? I am sure it was. But whaa is more of a hose job for the tax-payer is this inquiry. So far $60 million + and counting. Add to the fact when the news came out Martin had to call an election and suffered the outcome of this mess with a minority government, what otherwise seemed like a sure majority. As a result we can expect to see an election in about a year as opposed to 3 or 4. Therefore, with all the yapping and cussing over this issue, the taxpayer has screwed himself over of $300 million + of their own money over a $100 million scandal Running elections costs money). Pat yourself on the back taxpayer for fucking yourself up the ass. lol

Classic??? i thought it was stupid and unbecoming for a man in his position, and some of you have the guts to complain about GWB....yikes.

So what you saying is "Come on goverment just take more money from me, raise my taxes I don't care"??????? If I would be a poltician you would be my favorite voter...way to go Dude.

The additional cost of this mess is not caused by "voters getting it up the ass" it is cause by those morons in the first place. The additional money is a direct result of politicians being caught with their hand in a cookie jar.
Or, they found another way to misuse your tax dollars, but wait.....you just said you don't care about that...ok..that make sense. :D

[Guy Lafleuer]

I doubt he'll go to prison. But I'm sick and tired of this crap. This thing has cost us over 100 million dollars and this ass is moking the whole process. Trying to cover up the fact that the gov't ripped us off of over 100 miillion bucks. There's got to be some accountability for this. We pay more than our fair share of taxes in this country and the idea of our elected members of gov't ripping it off burns my ass. I never liked Chretien ( I don't like most politicians ) and I truly hope that once this inquiry is over, those SOB's hang. The best thing that could come out of this is some real enforcement for future govt's at all levels. Something that holds all levels of gov't accountable. And maybe we can get them to keep there campaign promises as well.

Guy

[red]

I am glad everyone is waiting for the inquiry report before judging who is guilty

[n_v]

Using your logic, stores should never prosecute shoplifters. Doing so is often more costly than what was stolen and getting someone convicted does not necessarily mean any money in their pockets. Nonetheless, they do prosecute shoplifters as they know there is a deterrence effect in doing so. The principal is the same here. No enquiry would simply encourage more of the same behavior.


Classic??? i thought it was stupid and unbecoming for a man in his position, and some of you have the guts to complain about GWB....yikes.

So what you saying is "Come on goverment just take more money from me, raise my taxes I don't care"??????? If I would be a poltician you would be my favorite voter...way to go Dude.

The additional cost of this mess is not caused by "voters getting it up the ass" it is cause by those morons in the first place. The additional money is a direct result of politicians being caught with their hand in a cookie jar.
Or, they found another way to misuse your tax dollars, but wait.....you just said you don't care about that...ok..that make sense. :D
Both you guys like to put words in others mouths. I just hope you never serve on a jury because THAT would be a diservice to the judicial process.

What I said was taking the inquiry and the rage of the electorate electing a minority government TOGETHER, the cost is more then the scandal. And the two (election and inquiry) are intertwined. I have never said to turn a blind eye to what happened. Just be prudent about it. Last May a couple of arrests were made and some firing happened. That is cost effective action. This inquiry is just grandstading for everyone involved and only serving the needs of the lawyers to pad their pockets. Thus this inquiry is a waste of time and a diservice to whom it should serve - the taxpayer.

[someone]

Last May a couple of arrests were made and some firing happened. That is cost effective action.

Even more cost effective would have been for voters to defeat the government in the last election. That would have provided much better deterence than firing a few lower level types.

[n_v]

Even more cost effective would have been for voters to defeat the government in the last election. That would have provided much better deterence than firing a few lower level types.
But they didn't. Hence cost INEFFECTIVE action.

[langeweile]

Both you guys like to put words in others mouths. I just hope you never serve on a jury because THAT would be a diservice to the judicial process.

What I said was taking the inquiry and the rage of the electorate electing a minority government TOGETHER, the cost is more then the scandal. And the two (election and inquiry) are intertwined. I have never said to turn a blind eye to what happened. Just be prudent about it. Last May a couple of arrests were made and some firing happened. That is cost effective action. This inquiry is just grandstading for everyone involved and only serving the needs of the lawyers to pad their pockets. Thus this inquiry is a waste of time and a diservice to whom it should serve - the taxpayer.

So what do you suggest? Drop the issue? Ignore it?
I believe that Chretien was knee deep in this mess. Since the parties involved won't step forward and admit lining their pockets. We have to go through this inquiry to get to the bottom of this. Unless you are suggesting we fire people simply based on suspicion?
I wish that at the end of this the guilty ones are made to pay back the cost of this. Will it happen? probably not, so "we the people" are left paying the bills for a bunch of goverment crooks.

[hjwolf69]

Was the money mis-spent?the Referendum results were very close, with 49.4% choosing to separate:
http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/stats/1995ref.htm

whatever the cost, it was worth it ... what would we have said about Chrétien if the vote had gone the other way? ... that he had not spent enough money on advertising/ sponsorship! :)

[langeweile]

the Referendum results were very close, with 49.4% choosing to separate:
http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/stats/1995ref.htm

whatever the cost, it was worth it ... what would we have said about Chrétien if the vote had gone the other way? ... that he had not spent enough money on advertising/ sponsorship! :)

Technically the referendum was not about seperation.

Personally i believe the rest of Canada should call QC's bluff and let them seperate. Let's see what happens? My guess is they will think about it again...but that is a whole different discussion.

[n_v]

So what do you suggest? Drop the issue? Ignore it?
There you go again. Hysterical thought processes :rolleyes: .
People being arrested and others being fired is not ignoring it. What is more constructive is creating guidelines to avert this in the future. Crying over spilled milk is not healthy. Your anger is fogging your mind whereby you are not focusing on the issue. The issue is money. And this inquiry is pissing it away!

[someone]

the Referendum results were very close, with 49.4% choosing to separate:
http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/stats/1995ref.htm

whatever the cost, it was worth it ... what would we have said about Chrétien if the vote had gone the other way? ... that he had not spent enough money on advertising/ sponsorship! :)

Given that the Referendum was before the sponsorship program, I don’t see your point. Moreover, I don’t see why you would think it would have had a positive effect even if the timing of events had been reversed.

[langeweile]

There you go again. Hysterical thought processes :rolleyes: .
People being arrested and others being fired is not ignoring it. What is more constructive is creating guidelines to avert this in the future. Crying over spilled milk is not healthy. Your anger is fogging your mind whereby you are not focusing on the issue. The issue is money. And this inquiry is pissing it away!

I agree that the laws need to be toughned..maybe? No law in the world will prevent fraud. If one is determined to break it he/she can at any time.
Does that mean we should let get of free? I respectfully disagree.

The real problem is, that the goverment has too much money to play around with..see budget surplus!!! $8.9 Billion just this year, and the voltures are circling and are trying to find a new way to spend it. Instead of paying down the debt.

[hjwolf69]

Given that the Referendum was before the sponsorship program, I don’t see your point. Moreover, I don’t see why you would think it would have had a positive effect even if the timing of events had been reversed.there was a segment in the inquiry when Chrétien was questioned about the amount he spent on advertising/ sponsorship leading up to the Referendum ... about page 12541 in the transcript:
http://gomery.irri.net/Feb%2008,%2005/gomery72feb0805REVISED.pdf

Chrétien goes on to say that advertising/ sponsorship was not the only reason for 'winning' the Referendum ... probably didn't have a negative effect, though :)

[slowpoke]

the Referendum results were very close, with 49.4% choosing to separate:
http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/stats/1995ref.htm

whatever the cost, it was worth it ... what would we have said about Chrétien if the vote had gone the other way? ... that he had not spent enough money on advertising/ sponsorship! :)

I agree that it was absolutely essential to keep Quebec in Canada and to avoid a constitutional crisis. But I heard on CBC Radio a while ago that there was a fair amount of money leakage long after the referendum. So, even though Chretien was justified in promoting the merits of Canada to Quebec, this inquiry is needed to find those who took advantage of the situation and ripped us off.

But I'd much rather be holding this inquiry, trying to trace some missing funds than be trying to hold our country together without Quebec. So it was better to have spent the money than to have not done it. Canada will survive this and the inquiry may inject a bit more accountability into governments.

[K Douglas]

Personally I thought his appearance was classic. He was great. even belittling the commison and commisonor. I love the golf ball prop. Way to go Jean.

Was the money mis-spent? I am sure it was. But whaa is more of a hose job for the tax-payer is this inquiry. So far $60 million + and counting. Add to the fact when the news came out Martin had to call an election and suffered the outcome of this mess with a minority government, what otherwise seemed like a sure majority. As a result we can expect to see an election in about a year as opposed to 3 or 4. Therefore, with all the yapping and cussing over this issue, the taxpayer has screwed himself over of $300 million + of their own money over a $100 million scandal Running elections costs money). Pat yourself on the back taxpayer for fucking yourself up the ass. lol
Thank god. I couldn't take another 3 or 4 years of the fiberals. I hope this inquiry coupled with same sex marriage failure brings down this gov't once and for all. $2 billion lost at HRDC, $1 billion and counting on a foolish gun registry, $100 million in fraudulent sponsorship deals, corrupton in the immigration ministry, the Youth Criminal Justice Act, no justice reform on sentencing, no victims bill of rights, over 100 broken promises since 1993.........Chretien and Martin should be proud. F'n morons.

[K Douglas]

Chretien must own a lot of shares in DuPont.............cause this guy is Teflon. Here we have the biggest joke of a PM - the first to not be fluent in either official language - telling us he saved the country with the Sponsorship program. What an arrogant prick! He almost cost us the country by calling the 1995 referendum in the 1st place.
Wasn't it Mr Chretien himself who ordered an inquiry into the Airbus affair in order to discredit Brian Mulroney. Nothing less than a political vendetta which cost taxpayers millions of dollars. But now that he is under scrutiny what does he do........he undermines the whole process through evasive testimony and cheap stunts. Just a waste of time. He's an embarassment to himself, his party and the citizens of Canada. How and why people voted for this clown 3 times boggles my mind.

[red]

Thank god. I couldn't take another 3 or 4 years of the fiberals. I hope this inquiry coupled with same sex marriage failure brings down this gov't once and for all. $2 billion lost at HRDC, $1 billion and counting on a foolish gun registry, $100 million in fraudulent sponsorship deals, corrupton in the immigration ministry, the Youth Criminal Justice Act, no justice reform on sentencing, no victims bill of rights, over 100 broken promises since 1993.........Chretien and Martin should be proud. F'n morons.

they will win again, and again.