Another Election ?

[ice_dog]

Duceppe may table a non-confidence vote next week. Do we really need another election ?

[papasmerf]

Sure. Why not.

[Quest4Less]

Whatever it takes to get rid of the (*&%!#@!%#) Liberals!

[impala77]

God I hope not. I still haven't recovered from all the bullshit the politicians spewed the last time and we are actually thinking of asking them to do it again?

[ice_dog]

Who is a better alternative ?

[james_Mudenka]

It is unfair for Paul Martin to pay for the sins of Jean Chretein.

It is Chretien and his cronies who ought to be punished for the sponsership scandal. Paul Martin had nothing to do with the scandal.

Paul Martin was not even a member of the Chretien govt when the scandal happened.

No need for another election. Lets give the Martin govt a chance.

[someone]

It is unfair for Paul Martin to pay for the sins of Jean Chretein.

It is Chretien and his cronies who ought to be punished for the sponsership scandal. Paul Martin had nothing to do with the scandal.

Paul Martin was not even a member of the Chretien govt when the scandal happened.

No need for another election. Lets give the Martin govt a chance.
Paul Martin was a senior minister for Chretein (some would say that the Finance Minister is the most important minister).
He was from Quebec. It is hard to believe that he would not know what was going on in Quebec politics.
He may be far from being a great PM but he is not a fool. Indeed, if he was too stupid not to know what was going on in his own party, in his own province, as a senior minister, he is too incompetent to be a PM anyway.
I may be willing to believe that he as not part of what was going on, but I can’t believe that he was completely unaware of it.
Moreover, he is part of the party that benefited form the tax dollars misappropriated.
Saying that the current liberal party should not pay for the scandal is like saying that the present Canadian government should not be responsible for wrongs of past governments. I’m no lawyer but I don’t think that any court would decide on a lawsuit against the government based on the fact that the government changes.

The worst thing about the scandal is that it will hurt the cause of federalism in Quebec for years to come. For that damage alone, the liberal party deserves to pay a heavy price. Perhaps, if the rest of Canada shows equal disgust, Quebecers will blame the liberal party rather than Federalists in general. This may be wishful thinking, but I don’t see any other alternative.

[ice_dog]

He was from Quebec. It is hard to believe that he would not know what was going on in Quebec politics.


Yeah, he is from Montreal, but so what ! Martin and Chretian never got along. Martin was fired about three years ago after Chretian accused him of leaking sensitive information to the media. I can't believe he belonged to Chretian's inner circle.

He is simply the fall guy who has to pay the price.



The worst thing about the scandal is that it will hurt the cause of federalism in Quebec for years to come. For that damage alone, the liberal party deserves to pay a heavy price. Perhaps, if the rest of Canada shows equal disgust, Quebecers will blame the liberal party rather than Federalists in general. This may be wishful thinking, but I don’t see any other alternative.

This I agree. The PQ will gain some seats at the expense of the liberal. Not much change other than this. Basically, this eledtion is a waste of money and time. The turnout will be low.

Oh, one more thing, expect the CAD to loose some strength next week or so, unless of course, the crude oil price shoots up to $60 and or the trade figure(to be released on Tues) is worse than expected.

So, next week should be buying opportunity for CAD, R U listening Yankees ?...lol

[oldjones]

It is unfair for Paul Martin to pay for the sins of Jean Chretein.

It is Chretien and his cronies who ought to be punished for the sponsership scandal. Paul Martin had nothing to do with the scandal.

Paul Martin was not even a member of the Chretien govt when the scandal happened.

No need for another election. Lets give the Martin govt a chance.

Everything you say is true, but has fair ever had the slightest thing to do with politics?

You could, if you want substitute or add: useful, honest, sensible, smart, in the national interest, in anyone's interest …. You could even point out the whole sponsorship structure was an invention of another Quebec pol, Mulroney by name, whose adminstration was not untainted either.

You wear the sweater, you're part of the team. The team may lose because of the foul, even if you personally get the Lady Byng trophy for pointing it out to the ref.

But Mr. Harper and his re-christened CRAP don't get the win by default. They still have to earn it, and that'll need a more convincing performance than he put on last time, or since.

[langeweile]

Harper doesn't present much an alternative to Martin. He lacks charisma and foremost a convincing alternative plattform to the left.
His plattform sounds like a "light me too version" of the liberals.

The only one that has any fire is Layton.While I disagree with most of his politics, at least he seems to have some convictions. Plus he has the guts to stand up and be counted. In a field of wafflers and "me too's" he might be the surprise winner.

[oldjones]

After seeing Layton up close as a City Councillor, I'm maybe a bit less impressed. I also remember the botch and betrayal of Bob Rae's surprise win in Ontario; couldn't keep his core voters happy, nor please new ones.

Frankly, I'd read "cenrist" as a compliment; there's not enough room along either edge of the sword that tries to slice everything into right or left. The real answers for the real people are somewhere in the middle, taking the best from both extremes and making it work.

That was always the Liberals' strong suit, while the conservatives—under all their names—always seemed more interested in theory and rhetoric. Sadly, every so often, we discover that for some "making it work" means no more than lining their own and their friends' pockets. Last time they were PC's this time they were Liberals. Again the cry goes up, "Where is the Rhinoceros Party when we really need them?"

[someone]

Yeah, he is from Montreal, but so what ! Martin and Chretian never got along. Martin was fired about three years ago after Chretian accused him of leaking sensitive information to the media. I can't believe he belonged to Chretian's inner circle.
He may not have been have been in Chretian’s inner circle but I have a hard time believing that someone who won such a strong victory at the liberal leadership convention that elected him would not have enough connections in Quebec politics to be kept informed of what was happening. As I said, I may be willing to believe that he was not part of the scandal but I find it hard to believe that would not have been aware of what was going on.

[onthebottom]

..... Ontario public opinion doesn't seem to be that upset with Martin.....
bbk

A damning statement on those in Ontario.

OTB

[Don]

Recent polling shows the Liberals at exactly at the same point they were on the day of the last election.


Not the polls I've seen

http://www.thestar.com/static/PDF/050411_fed_vote.pdf

Though we all know how (un)accurate polls can be, it's got to be encouraging of you are a Conservative. The Liberals have dropped like a rock and trail the Conservatives in even Ontario and even Quebec (though the BQ have gained more than the Conservatives there)!

Imagine that. Canada with a PM once referred to as 'Bush. Jr'

[chd]

as much as i want to see the liberals
out
bbking may be right
Harper may not be able to win an election
bbking
MARTIN did all those things " to get to the bottom of it"
but he also wrote the cheq.
he has to go
he knew
he was helped by the donations
I do not see how an argument can be made for him

[Don]

Harper stands for nothing that is Canadian

Come on. Maybe if you are thinking about "Toronto-Canadian" views or a liberal-Canadian. It's not like his party is some fringe group that gets 5% of the vote. The Conservatives have 100 or so seats. Obviously there are a good percentage of Canadians out there who do identify with that party. To say that he stands for nothing that is Canadian is a little ridiculous (and pretty narrow minded).

[Don]

As for your foolish statement OTB - you should be reminded that it was Martin that appointed the Comm. with a mandate to get to the bottom no matter where it leads, it was Martin that fired all bureaucrats that where tainted by this scandal, it was Martin that has filed lawsuits to recover the money. Not like the corruption your Republicans under T. Delay who hasn't come to turns that he's a thief.


It's called PR. Just liked when those pilots who bombed the Canadian soldiers on Afganistan got punished. Or when some army personnel got fired AFTER the Iraqi prison torture scandal got blown wide open. Once you are caught in the open, gotta do you best to smooth it over with the public and get some people below you to take the hit for the best of the group.

[someone]

Come on. Maybe if you are thinking about "Toronto-Canadian" views or a liberal-Canadian. It's not like his party is some fringe group that gets 5% of the vote. The Conservatives have 100 or so seats. Obviously there are a good percentage of Canadians out there who do identify with that party. To say that he stands for nothing that is Canadian is a little ridiculous (and pretty narrow minded).

The one thing that I most dislike about the liberal party is their tendency to claim that anyone who disagrees with them is unCanadian. Who can forget the Free trade debate in that regard.

[chd]

So as finance minister he has no blame is that what you are saying? BBKING
Also you believe he had no idea that this scam was going on?
As they say in the song "MEET THE NEW BOSS SAME AS THE OLD BOSS"

[Peeping Tom]

How does Tom DeLay get into the picture in a thread discussing the implications of Canadian Baathism?

How about naming this so called corruption? I'm waiting to debunk it, go ahead.




Not like the corruption your Republicans under T. Delay who hasn't come to turns that he's a thief.

[Don]

How does Tom DeLay get into the picture in a thread discussing the implications of Canadian Baathism?

How about naming this so called corruption? I'm waiting to debunk it, go ahead.

Because we obsess so much about America that they will always be in our thoughts.

[Keebler Elf]

The current scandal will blow over in a few weeks/months. Really, I couldn't care less about the so-called scandal in Quebec. I bet 9 out of 10 Canadians couldn't even begin to explain exactly what the scandal is about; all everybody hears is "Liberals" and "scandal" and the hate-on begins.

If there's another election, it might just be the first time that I wouldn't vote. I just can't be bothered after having an election not even a year ago.

[xarir]

We haven't (yet) heard the whole story as the Gomery Commission is still in biz. But thus far, it actually seems to me that no one in government was involved. A lot of high-placed people in the Liberal Party were in, but no MPs.

'Tis a sad day though when a few unscrupulous individuals choose a course of action which can topple a government. The reputation of Canada on the international scene will suffer if and when the government falls. With it, our standing as an upright, safe country to do business with and in will be somewhat sullied for a while. The Federalist cause will similarly be weakened at a time which it should be getting ever stronger. But perhaps the worst thing is that the man who is best suited to lead the country, will no longer be in charge. I am not claiming for a second that Paul Martin is the best Prime Minister we've seen, but as the head of state, as the highest representative of Canada, I'm much more comfortable having Paul Martin out there on the international stage than I would be with Stephen Harper.

[langeweile]

I don't buy "Mr Dithers" story that he didn't knew about the scandal.

If he didn't knew than he is incompetent. Any decent accountant in any decent company knows what happens to his money.Even if he didn't knew the details, he should have the answer by his finger tips.
This incompetency does not look good on a resume for PM.

If he knew....than he is a crook.

IMO he knew and decided to turn a blind eye, just like the rest of them. Part of the strategy is to drag the issue out until most people lose interest and memories have faded.
What really makes me mad is the arrogance of some of those involved. For those of you who have any insight in to the business world know very well, that any private or public company officers, would have been held accountable a long time ago.
Personally I feel like being slapped in the face, by their lack of resolve in this matter.
That's my rant for the day.

[oldjones]

It's called PR. Just liked when those pilots who bombed the Canadian soldiers on Afganistan got punished. Or when some army personnel got fired AFTER the Iraqi prison torture scandal got blown wide open. Once you are caught in the open, gotta do you best to smooth it over with the public and get some people below you to take the hit for the best of the group.Well how else could you run anything more complicated than a tea party? You don't immediately fire the Chair of the school board because a couple of teacher's used their school's Science Lab fund to finance a dirty weekend in the Falls, do you?

The reason auditors exist is because the guys who sign the cheques cannot possibly know everything about where the money winds up. There are two test points for management: one at the system set up time—how good a system is it? I believe it was Mulroney who set up the sponsorship program and Chrétien that 'improved' it. Given the animosity between him and Martin, its unlikely there was much collusion there.

The other test point is at breakdown—how good is crisis response? I'd have to say not half bad. There is less mud-slinging and name-calling than I'd expect if it had been PM Harper who appointed Gomery and fired Ouellette and others. Frankly, I can live without that, what I want is facts, and they are coming out.

Rushing into action on half the facts is seldom smart. If Harper wants to show himself wise, he'll find a way to keep pummelling the Liberals without forcing an election.

If anything, it's been the PR from the Liberals that's been lacking. They're doing a miserable job of it.

[someone]

I believe it was Mulroney who set up the sponsorship program and Chrétien that 'improved' it.
That's news to me. Do you have a link or a source for this?

[oldjones]

That's news to me. Do you have a link or a source for this? I was incorrect to say Mulroney set up the program; what he set up was the PMO national unity fund that paid for the program.

It's not in an attept to whitewash crooked Liberals that I try to recall that Brian (what was that adjective that used to appear with his name?) had his own share of party-hacks accused, convicted and/or forced out.

Easy access to our money and a "Winning isn't everything, it is the only thing" ethic are a combo that invites corruption.

Here's a couple of the less partisan links from the 6,000 odd a "sponsorship program mulroney" search on Gooogle turned up:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/martin_testimony.html
and
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/federal_scan.htm

[Ref]

We haven't (yet) heard the whole story as the Gomery Commission is still in biz. But thus far, it actually seems to me that no one in government was involved. A lot of high-placed people in the Liberal Party were in, but no MPs.

'Tis a sad day though when a few unscrupulous individuals choose a course of action which can topple a government. The reputation of Canada on the international scene will suffer if and when the government falls. With it, our standing as an upright, safe country to do business with and in will be somewhat sullied for a while. The Federalist cause will similarly be weakened at a time which it should be getting ever stronger. But perhaps the worst thing is that the man who is best suited to lead the country, will no longer be in charge. I am not claiming for a second that Paul Martin is the best Prime Minister we've seen, but as the head of state, as the highest representative of Canada, I'm much more comfortable having Paul Martin out there on the international stage than I would be with Stephen Harper.


Yikes! Over the past few days I was wondering why the people of Ontario continued to support the Liberal party...Now I know why.

[Don]

Yikes! Over the past few days I was wondering why the people of Ontario continued to support the Liberal party...Now I know why.

Same deal as the US. People reluctantly vote for a party because they feel they have no choice (because the alternatives doesn't agree with them).

[MarkII]

Keep in mind that Paul Martin resigned from the Liberal Party and came back to try and reform the party.

He resigned and came back as publicly stated, to reform the party and correct the misdeeds.

No he should not be hung for Cretiens misdeeds. To my mind, he shoud have spoken outright about his concerns over spending long before now.

It doesn't matter whether he knew or did not know...he did take the right steps to find out WHO did know with the Gomery enquiry.

The question before voters is now quite simply; Do you feel Stephen Harper is Prime Miinister material? While support for the Liberal party ie: "Martin is slipping daily in the polls" it is important to consider the other question asked "Would you vote for a Harper governent?"

The polls show it to be less than a tie in favor of the Liberal in the last poll i read.

I'm not tied to any party but it is important to know that the polling companies are directly related to the political parties, ie: ownership.

The Liberal and Tory Parties will always quote certain results and deny others. Media also quote only certain polls.

It's the medias way of telling you their "editorial position" without taking a stance early in a political story.

How a question is asked will also produce the required result. That is the most important aspect of any poll. What was exactly the question asked.

The Gomery enquiry should be allowed to finish and Canada should vote, if needed, on it's findings.

I do not believe we need a media based election. Since the advertising dollars for a summer election would boost all media company profits, they have everything to gain by urging Canadians to go to a summer (june) election.

My 2 cents

[galt]

The question isn't wheather I'd want Harper as PM. The question is whether I want Martin and the Liberals to continue to run this country and to continue to steal from me.

There's all these defenses of Martin in this thread that talk about how Martin "never knew" but as soon as he was elected party leader he worked to "clean up the party". This logic is flawed. What exactly is Martin cleaning up? After all, if he didn't KNOW about the money being stolen and who stole it, how can he clean anything up? How can he fire people who are obviously yet to be proven guilty of anything? (Unless of course he knew from day one who was involved and who stole what). By very definition this makes it apparent that he knew all along where the money was being spent.

As Finance Minister, Paul Martin was notorious for setting up "foundations" that are outside of the scrutiny of parliament. The national unity foundation provided the Prime Minister $50 Million annually to spend as he saw fit. Martin never once questioned where this money was being pissed away despite repeated scathing audits from the auditor general during his reign as finance minister. Furthermore, the Martin government continues to create these foundations (the national daycare program is yet another example of one of these) and literally billions of dollars is taken outside of the scrutinty of parliament and the Auditor General. What exactly is Martin trying to hide by doing this?

So, would I want Martin as the PM? No and I never did. I would prefer a party in power that is not going to overtax me. I would prefer a party in power that is not going to build illegal surpluses in an EI fund that is bloated beyond reasonable and thumb it's nose at the Canadian Public as it reaches into their pockets. I would prefer a government in power that actually gives a rat's ass about what the Canadian Public want and not what they feel is best for them while lining their own pockets with MY MONEY.

You can rest assured that Paul Martin, in more than one way benefited from the sponsorship scandal. If not directly than by being able to leverage the election war chest of a party that used our money to bankroll his election.

So bring on the election because I have little or no faith that Martin ever prosecute the likes of Gagliano or that lying, arrogant bastard that preceded him as Prime Minister

[someone]

I was incorrect to say Mulroney set up the program; what he set up was the PMO national unity fund that paid for the program.

It's not in an attept to whitewash crooked Liberals that I try to recall that Brian (what was that adjective that used to appear with his name?) had his own share of party-hacks accused, convicted and/or forced out.

Easy access to our money and a "Winning isn't everything, it is the only thing" ethic are a combo that invites corruption.

Here's a couple of the less partisan links from the 6,000 odd a "sponsorship program mulroney" search on Gooogle turned up:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/martin_testimony.html
and
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/federal_scan.htm
Thanks for the links

[johnhenrygalt]

Keep in mind that Paul Martin resigned from the Liberal Party and came back to try and reform the party.

He resigned and came back as publicly stated, to reform the party and correct the misdeeds.


Paul Martin never resigned from the Liberal Party. He's been a member for close to 40 years.

[johnhenrygalt]

Paul Martin is the best Prime Minister we've seen, but as the head of state, as the highest representative of Canada, I'm much more comfortable having Paul Martin out there on the international stage than I would be with Stephen Harper.

Sorry to be pedantic, but the Prime Minister is not the head of state; he is head of government.

[impala77]

So, would I want Martin as the PM? No and I never did. I would prefer a party in power that is not going to overtax me. I would prefer a party in power that is not going to build illegal surpluses in an EI fund that is bloated beyond reasonable and thumb it's nose at the Canadian Public as it reaches into their pockets. I would prefer a government in power that actually gives a rat's ass about what the Canadian Public want and not what they feel is best for them while lining their own pockets with MY MONEY.



:) Utopia!!!! find me such a politician or political party and I'd vote for them as well; so would alot of other canadians.

[galt]

:) Utopia!!!! find me such a politician or political party and I'd vote for them as well; so would alot of other canadians.

Touche, but the fact of the matter is that the Liberals have done all of the above and worse. At least the Conservatives, after several years in the political wasteland, have hopefully learned some lessons and will at least begin to take some steps in the right direction. Being that Martin is actually the architect of many of the Liberal Financial policies that continue to rape our pocket books; I have no confidence that he will take any measures other to continue to find new and better ways to steal from us and keep all money possible outside of the stewardship of parliament

[strange1]

I have a feeling that today's Harris/Manning report on privatizing health care will give pause to those who were planning to vote against the liberals. Too many people feel the conservative/reform/rightwing party has too many hidden agendas. Harris and Manning, what an inspirational pair.

[galt]

I have a feeling that today's Harris/Manning report on privatizing health care will give pause to those who were planning to vote against the liberals. Too many people feel the conservative/reform/rightwing party has too many hidden agendas. Harris and Manning, what an inspirational pair.


Don't fall for the standard Liberal diversion of playing the healthcare card. The Harris/Manning report was commissioned by the Fraser Institute not the Conservative Party of Canada. Moreover, the report is not so much about privatizing healthcare but actually giving more power to the provinces who are handcuffed by the Canada Health Care Act. Currently, provinces' collective hands are tied and options limitted especially when the Federal Government gets so much say over the requirements placed on the provinces while at the same time slashing healthcare transfers to the provinces.

Make no mistake. Paul Martin and his fiscal policy of making massive cuts to provincial healthcare transfers are at the heart of the funding crises in our healthcare system today. Paul Martin is the last person who should be preaching about saving our healthcare system. He was one of the key players in decimating it. Then again, he did pull this little report out of his ass today totally out of context in order to simply draw attention away from the fact that he was refusing to answer a question that may well have shown that he perjured himself in front of the Gomery Inquiry.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1113419188079_108828388?s_name=&no_ads=

[Truncador]

If the Conservatives are to get anywhere, they're going to have to start standing up to the typical Liberal libel that the Conservatives are a sinister fifth-column plotting to destroy society, bring down the State, and hand the country over to America. This means aggressively challenging Liberal orthodoxies instead of kowtowing to them, which is what they're doing right now. The problem with this sort of pink-Tory appeasement strategy is that it places them in a necessarily defensive posture in a necessarily doomed attempt to compete with the Liberals on the latter's own ground; as long as they continue to acknowledge various Liberal shibboleths as somehow sacred, they put themselves in the position of heretics (if liberalism is sacred, what else could a conservative possibly be ?).

This means that Conservatives are going to have start publicly asking just what exactly it is about State-monopolized medicine, gun control, exorbitant taxes, concentration of power in a central State behemoth, etc. that makes them define Canadian nationhood, other than the fact that the Liberals happen to favour them. It needs to be pointed out that Canada existed before these policies did and will continue to exist without them; in short, the Liberal's self-arrogated role as custodian of all that is Canadian has to be challenged. Canadians should also be asked to consider whether or not the party that decimated the military, signed Kyoto, and forfeited our seat at the missile- defense table can be taken at their word when they claim to be nationalists and defenders of Canadian sovereignty. The various standard Liberal doom prophecies also would have to be exposed for the reactionary, authoritarian phantasmogoria that they are; to this end, not a day should go by without the public being reminded that the Liberals made the exact same apocalyptic forecasts concerning the Free Trade deal and they didn't come true then, either. Liberal ideology should also be attacked in its fundamentals; a good starting point would be pointing out that their agenda owes more to the psychotically totalitarian ambitions of Trudeau- who cloaked his will in nationalism just like every other fascist demagogue- than to any authentic "Canadian identity" values.

The Conservatives will never win an election until they start fighting back; since they've so far shown no sign that they're going to (in the last campaign, they actually refused to even run modern attack ads), there should be no election.

[Cardinal Fang]

Paul Martin could not have known about the scandal. He's was too busy "sharpening the knife" to plunge it into his Jean's back.

[papasmerf]

4 to 1 ya get a lib

[oldjones]

Paul Martin could not have known about the scandal. He's was too busy "sharpening the knife" to plunge it into his Jean's back. Seeing as how this scandal is the very knife that's gutting what regard Mr. Chrétien had left, it's a pity MR. Martin couldn't get it to work sooner, or find a grip that would keep the spatter off him.

For all the complaints of dirty politics as his supporters stacked riding executives across the country, Martin's shown little talent for the kind of message management that might have had his new guard looking good, as the old guard was consigned to the flames.

He still seems like a well-intentioned guy who just doesn't get that in politics the first rule is: There are no rules.

[guelph]

Don't fall for the standard Liberal diversion of playing the healthcare card. The Harris/Manning report was commissioned by the Fraser Institute not the Conservative Party of Canada.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1113419188079_108828388?s_name=&no_ads=

Is there a difference?

[guelph]

If the Conservatives are to get anywhere, they're going to have to start standing up to the typical Liberal libel that the Conservatives are a sinister fifth-column plotting to destroy society, bring down the State, and hand the country over to America.

The conservatives have live down their own actions when they won majorities.

The postering about selling off the CBC, Priivatizing Health Care and Tax Cuts at any costs have to stop.

I have voted conservative in the past but Harris & Mulroney changed that.

When you think of privitizing Health Care and CBC etc think of the fantastic deal Harris made for the 407 & Mulroney's buddy deal for the Toronto Airport

I afriend who was at a senior level in the local Conservative riding campaining heavily for Harris has said that the Liberal governtment should declare the sail nul and void due to fraud and take any costs incurred out of Harris and his cabinet's hides.


This type of thing is what scares people. These can't be easily undone once set in motion.

[Truncador]

The conservatives have live down their own actions when they won majorities.

The postering about selling off the CBC, Priivatizing Health Care and Tax Cuts at any costs have to stop.

I have voted conservative in the past but Harris & Mulroney changed that.

When you think of privitizing Health Care and CBC etc think of the fantastic deal Harris made for the 407 & Mulroney's buddy deal for the Toronto Airport

I afriend who was at a senior level in the local Conservative riding campaining heavily for Harris has said that the Liberal governtment should declare the sail nul and void due to fraud and take any costs incurred out of Harris and his cabinet's hides.

Ok, but in fairness there's going to be buddy deals and funny-business involved in just about any policy any Canadian government undertakes, whether privatization or something else.

[someone]

I have voted conservative in the past but Harris & Mulroney changed that.

When you think of privitizing Health Care and CBC etc think of the fantastic deal Harris made for the 407 & Mulroney's buddy deal for the Toronto Airport

In terms of policies, can you think of a better PM then Mulroney in the last 30 years?

[yychobbyist]

In terms of policies, can you think of a better PM then Mulroney in the last 30 years?

Pierre Trudeau

[someone]

Pierre Trudeau
You have to be kidding. Let’s see FIRA, NEP, nationalizing (or to use his newspeak, Canadianizing) private firms, running massive deficits and deficits that kept increasing as a percent of GDP (at least Mulroney managed to reverse that part), starving the Canadian forces (at one point he even wanted to get Canada out of NATO), the war measures act, etc., etc. Need I go on?

[oldjones]

In terms of policies, can you think of a better PM then Mulroney in the last 30 years? Almost as funny as Truncador suggesting Mike Harris for PM.

When the other side's faves look like clowns, it's proof we all have to start migrating towards the middle. The fringes are for the loonies and **********s.

[someone]

Mulroney destroyed the PC brand giving rise to more radical elements of the conservative cause not to mention the BLOC - this is a legacy that few polititians manage to acomplish. [/QUOTE

At least Trudeau brought home our constitution and gave it a Canadian spin - to those critics that look at the high spending - remember Trudeau's time was one of high inflation - the policies he followed were what the experts said was best at the time - every free state in the world including the US practiced this economic policy.
Let's not be ridiculous. No experts where supporting things like the FIRA, NEP, etc. etc. Mulroney hurt the PC party by putting much needed economic reforms (e.g. Free Trade, The GST) ahead of popularity.

[someone]

Almost as funny as Truncador suggesting Mike Harris for PM.

When the other side's faves look like clowns, it's proof we all have to start migrating towards the middle. The fringes are for the loonies and **********s.


And what the hell would you know about any of the issues involved. I don't have time for fools like you. Go back to the peanut Gallery.

[n_v]

..running massive deficits and deficits that kept increasing as a percent of GDP (at least Mulroney managed to reverse that part),..
What part? When Mulroney left the deficit was about $39 billion and the debt was soaring. He did squat in that regard.

[ice_dog]

Who led the last federal minority government, prior to the one headed by Joe Clark ? How long did it last ?

Anybody has the answer ?

[papasmerf]

Who led the last federal minority government, prior to the one headed by Joe Clark ? How long did it last ?

Anybody has the answer ?

Bill and hillery?

[someone]

What part? When Mulroney left the deficit was about $39 billion and the debt was soaring. He did squat in that regard.
He did not do as much as he should have but he did start the process of reducing it as a percentage of GDP. Moroever, he did get operating surpluses (e.g. it it were not for interest paymenets, there would have been surpluses) The laws of compound interest mean that was a positive step in correcting the deficits. However, I agree that he did not do nearly enough in that regard.

[ice_dog]

Bill and hillery?

Don't be such a smart ass. I am serious.

[johnhenrygalt]

Under Brian Mulroney's regime, the federal government had an operating surplus - it was only interest on the debt which was creating the deficits. The monetary reforms implemented in the late 1980s (the war on inflation) set the stage for low interest rates through the 1990s which allowed not just Ottawa, but virtually all the provinces as well, to balance the books.

The Free Trade Agreement was vital to Canada's economic future. The replacement of the federal Manufacturers Sales Tax with the GST was part and parcel of the policy to reduce and eliminate tariffs.

John Turner was a former free trader who only opposed the FTA in 1988 as a political calculation. Jean Chrétien, after taking the Liberal leadership in 1990 claimed to support free trade but claimed to oppose the GST - demonstrating that he either was a liar, or understood neither the FTA nor the GST.

Mulroney brought us into the OAS and G7 (which used to be the G5). Canadian foreign policy helped bring an end to apartheid in South Africa. In those days, despite our decrepit armed forces (Mulroney did nothing to correct the negligence of Trudeau in National Defense), Canada had influence on the international stage. The fact that Mulroney was even considered for the job of Secretary General of the UN was a tribute to Canadian policy.

On the constitutional front, Trudeau sowed the seeds of national disunity by proceeding with constitutional change without Quebec. Mulroney had fixed the problem at Meech Lake, until Trudeau and his lackey Clyde Wells set out to destroy the spirit of unity.

For many initiatives the Mulroney government should be applauded. Where he failed Canadians was in his shameless cronyism and unabashed extravagance. He also promised tax relief and didn't deliver.

[loveasian]

Don't be such a smart ass. I am serious.


Pierre Trudeau (Liberal)

1972 election: Liberal (109); PC (107); NDP (31); Social Credit (15) and Other (2)

Elected by an extremely small plurality (41 per cent of seats versus the PCs' 40.5 per cent), Trudeau called an election within two years and won it by a more comfortable margin (53.4 per cent of seats).

[yychobbyist]

You have to be kidding. Let’s see FIRA, NEP, nationalizing (or to use his newspeak, Canadianizing) private firms, running massive deficits and deficits that kept increasing as a percent of GDP (at least Mulroney managed to reverse that part), starving the Canadian forces (at one point he even wanted to get Canada out of NATO), the war measures act, etc., etc. Need I go on?

But P.E.T. is considered an icon. Mulroney a crook.

[johnhenrygalt]

And prior to that we had three minorities in succession:"

1962 (PC - Diefenbaker)
1963 (Liberal - Pearson)
1965 (Liberal - Pearson)

From Louis St-Laurent to Mulroney there were never two back-to-back majorities.

We survived the 1960s and we'll be able to survive a few minority Parliaments.

[someone]

But P.E.T. is considered an icon. Mulroney a crook.
But I said "in terms of policies" not public perception. Many of the Americans who voted for Bush also likely consider him to be an “icon”. Popularity and good policies are not necessarily the same thing.

[dickydee292004]

Who cares!! Oh and by the way they just got another raise albeit a small one compared to the last one they got...Geez 150G's + travel + expense + they dont work most of the year anyways + they buy off their buddy's...Meanwhile people who went to fight in their wars and our old people cannot even feed, cloth and house themselves, oh and we wont even talk about the health system. Vote, for what, maybe one day Canadians will stop bending over and actually do something. But these are just my simple thoughts on the looming waste of time upcoming elections. Democracy, says who, dont believe the propaganda.

[ice_dog]

Pierre Trudeau (Liberal)

1972 election: Liberal (109); PC (107); NDP (31); Social Credit (15) and Other (2)

Elected by an extremely small plurality (41 per cent of seats versus the PCs' 40.5 per cent), Trudeau called an election within two years and won it by a more comfortable margin (53.4 per cent of seats).

Thanks . I thought Trudeau had a minority government in March 1980 after he defeated Clark's minority government.


http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0005326

[oldjones]

And what the hell would you know about any of the issues involved. I don't have time for fools like you. Go back to the peanut Gallery. Back at ya bro', thanks for keeping the tone and content on such a high plane.

[someone]

Back at ya bro', thanks for keeping the tone and content on such a high plane.

You set the tone, I just responded.

[galt]

Bottom line, what is very apparent is that the Liberals stole massive amounts of money from us. Surprisingly, Liberal Candidates seemed to have NO funding issues in the previous election. Each and every Liberal MP who used Liberal Party funds in their campaign used stolen tax dollars. Whether they knew it or not is immaterial. They were given an unfair advantage by a party that has been thumbing it's nose at the Canadian public for sometime now.

Martin has only been able to balance the budget through over taxation and the economic benefits gained by the previous PC government and their ability to reduce the service charge on the national debt. At the same time he has destroyed our healthcare system, (btw bbk you may want to check your numbers on the Harris thing again. Mike Harris actually increased healthcare funding, from a provincial standpoint to one of it's highest levels ever. It was the Martin cuts that he was not able to put back into the system), further destroyed our military (and yes, the blood of every serviceman or woman killed by obsolete and deteriorating equipment lies squarely on the hands of the Fiberals at this point).

This government absolutely lacks the leadership and moral authority to run this country. While bbk lives in his socialist wonderland where he revels in the joy of our delapidated healthcare system and crooked government, the majority of people that I have spoken to have had enough.